Quote from Ultimate[RUS] :

Hello. I want to show ppls race rezults at the finish. Best 8 racers in table or buttons type.

Automatic race results display is not currently available. However anyone can type !results or just !rs to see known race results incl. points and some timing info. The data are also separated into car categories if applicable.

Exactly, Airio can only spectate people, and trying to enforce some order using spectatings... uhm... it would be very, very confusing, I think. But the idea with /join used locally... WOW! I never even distantly though about that. Problem is Airio (server) cannot (I think) in some reasonable way communicate with Aonio (client), except using some special but visible messages to the client (such as /join), captured and processed locally.

In the config files simply use the Cyrilic letters, no ^C is necessary, just type the characters using Cyrilic keyboard. BUT be sure to save the files in Unicode encoding, preferably UTF-8. This selection offer even simple tools such Notepad in its Save As dialog. Type !rld and...

Note: The TC admin panel used e.g. on 500servers always (!) saves files using ANSI encoding after editing and this is wrong, it will not work! Edit the files on your PC, save them as UTF-8 and upload them to 500servers, overwriting existing files. Never use TC admin panel file editing options.

EDIT: As Anthoop pointed out to me, there are actually TC admin panel versions allowing you to change text file format when saving. In that case be sure to use one of the Unicode options, preferably UTF-8.

Last edited by EQ Worry, Sun 17 Jan 2010, 15:24.

Quote from Zalex :

I give you 10/10 for your tools and 2/10 for the marketing side. We need to do all the work to promote your great stuff ! hehehe

There are people who would love to see all the "great stuff" disappear so that the "good old LFS times" can be back, whatever that means. I guess we will be saying the same in two years or so.

But you are right, I am no good at marketing. I rather leave it up to people to find the information, for various reasons.

But I changed my signature so that it has a simple link to the top of this thread, thanks for pointing this necessity out!

Quote from Scawen :

I've done the fix and cleaned up the code in that area.

Superb, thanks!

Eh, whatever. For me the most important thing to get from LFS is to have fun. Cutting the chicane on BL2R gives 100% more fun to ALL other people I was talking concerning this, to the people who tried. But really, it is a moot point. Unless BL2R makes it back demo, there's no need to discuss what would be better. And if demo ever sees BL2R again be sure to evade the AirAttack server (and most others, I'm sure). But that is probably unnecessary remark as well, making the whole matter yet more pointless.

LFS sorts the grid (finish, reverse, random) at the moment the host restart vote is cast, that is when majority vote is seen or /restart is sent. It is at the moment you see RACE RESTARTING : 3.

If Airio custom sorting is used (such as on IHR), the necessary info is processed and sent to server one second later, that means when you see RACE RESTARTING : 2.

Only cars on track at this moment can be sorted according to specified criteria (by last race results, by session lap time, newly also with faster cars always in front). Anyone joining later will be put to the back.

Overall, countdown length does not matter, just be sure to be on track at the very latest when 3 seconds are remaining.

Quote from [d9] :

do you have quantified what happends with server/s if you remove therse filtering/censoring for say month (except nazi or rasism ofcourse)?

Well, no, I did not try turning off the language filter on our demo servers. When, almost two years ago, we wanted to change from VCom to Lapper (because it offered much more), the language filter was almost the first thing I needed to implement into Lapper code. None of AA admins even considered it as an option not to have language filter.

It was and still is part of AA policy and certainly I will not try this relatively major change while our servers are quite popular. But it is true that maybe, maybe the argument would die quickly by itself, but I'm very much afraid the opposite would be the case - repeated abuses by more and more people.

Quote from [d9] :

its not so simple, and it relates with overall situation in lfs when everyone say "its not like in old good times... etc" - MAYBE all that restrictions (prohibition) leads to regression. and you as developer and provider of this_type_of_services and saying what is "defaultly good", are part of that.

Yes, I do realize that my work probably influences LFS, at least what concerns true racing servers. However I cannot say if is good or bad influence or indeed a substantial one. There was much discussion in some other thread about whether restricting e.g. car types based on points (rank) is good or bad. I do not know, I can only see results and they speak for themselves.

Some people mention CTRA as the last good servers. If I remember correctly they also had language filter there and you were kicked on 2nd catch, exactly as it is configured on many Airio servers today. Also on CTRA there were limitations concerning race rejoins (which people regularly broke by reconnecting). There was a licencing system allowing you to get to better servers only after having quite substantial amount of points. (And in fact the system never worked, only the basic servers were packed, the rest were empty most of the time.)

From this perspective Airio brings nothing new. Except that it is available to everyone.

Quote from [d9] :

btw. this should be very nice feature of airio - detection of revenge crashing (revenger is always more than 1 lap behind)

Generally speaking, crash detection is not easy. It would be very complicated to come with an algorithm that would with 100% accuracy correctly say who is crashing. Being one or more laps behind is not a reliable factor. Revenge crashing brings one more level of complications into an already involved matter. So far I did not hear about any reasonably reliable method applicable using car data available via InSim. But suggestions and ideas are, as always, most welcome.

Right. But you see, my aim is not to copy Relax's functionality in every detail. Of course I looked at Relax features for some basic ideas, but then I added many other original things I considered useful or things that other people suggested.

On the other hand, Gai-Luron (author of Relax) already said that I can take some code from Relax if two conditions are met: Aonio is released as Open Source, and the fact the code was taken/adapted is mentioned somewhere. I may go eventually that way. In that case I will also ask Gai for permission to use the WAV files included in Relax...

Quote from ekze :

Should I replace all the files to upgrade? Or just replace .exe ?

The basic update is to overwrite the EXE and PDB files. When going from 2.3.4 to 2.3.5 it is also necessary to add LiveForSpeed.IniSm.Aegio.dll and LiveForSpeed.IniSm.Aegio.pdb files into Airio folder.

If you want to use any newly available configuration items (see the config changes summary for each release on the changelog page), you need to copy such items into your existing config files manually. This is not ideal, but making automated config updates is not my priority for now.

Quote from menantoll :

Is something you have in your plans to code?

I currently do not plan to add commands to manipulate directly with rating or points, especially for improving those stats. However I've already been asked to support some actions resulting in points going down...

Quote from menantoll :

In the absence of this is there a way to remove a user from the database so that they have to start from the beginning again?

Exactly as Void writes. What you're looking for is the !del ** username command allowing to delete all stats of a driver. That includes his server PBs and all points. On IHR this will basically put such a driver back to complete start. Do NOT use the !remove command, because that one removes stats of specified tracks or cars for everyone. Again this includes not only PBs, but also points scored in the particular combos.

Interesting! Thanks for info. I'll see what can be done.

Aonio does not depend on Airio, it can be used in single player or multiplayer mode on any LFS server. Laps remaining value is shown only if your remaining fuel value is available and you've already made a lap or two using the currently active track/car combo.

Sometimes, so far for unknown reasons, the OutGauge communication with LFS gets broken. Fuel level is not available then and neither fuel nor remaining laps is shown. Just press R in Aonio console to restart the tool, it will attempt to inicialize OutGauge again. If this fails even after restart it means there is some troubles with UDP communication setup.

Quote from Cabby :

Having the pit spotter say things like 'In the middle' or 'Inside' vs. 'Outside' are really helpful in close racing quarters.

You can actually setup separate warning sounds from 8 directions. You can use verbal info and you can also create "stereo ding files" sounding the alarm from the appropriate direction.

I'm not quite sure what inside and outside is. I would think in left hand turn the inside means on the left while in right hand turns inside is on the right. But does Relax make this distinction? I do not know, I have certain doubts though.

Last edited by EQ Worry, Wed 13 Jan 2010, 11:12.

Quote from morpha :

I don't really mean to argue anyway, I was merely providing an additional opinion.

Opinions are always most welcome, for sure. My response just tried to show the other side of the matter. Personally, I can bear quite a lot. But I've seen servers/admins taking the most liberal stace and dying quickly.

Also worth noting is the fact that I'm talking from demo servers admin point of view. You need to see that demo is for almost everyone the first experience with LFS and I really think being strict about language requirements there helps LFS as a whole, despite the fact that the filter fails in 1% or even 5% of cases. When I was new to LFS demo, I was racing only on AirAttack servers, because the admins were exremely nice and helpful, their language was polite and anyone swearing was kicked (using a very simple language filter in VCom).

Personally, I would not probably use language filter on S2 servers, because there are other means to fight bad language there.

Quote from ekze :

Cyrillic server name showed with wrong characters.

Yes, in Airio versions up to 2.3.4 the Unicode character support is not universal and displaying extended characters on the servers page is not possible. Please update to version 2.3.5 (see my signature for direct link) which contains complete Unicode conversion support (unfortunately leading initially to some display troubles but hopefully solved now). I'm not sure if the Cyrilic characters would show OK in the console, but certainly server name should be OK then on servers page.

Quote from legoflamb :

Not everyone is is willing to cut that corner because it is cheating. Cutting corners is the same as using hacks because they are both cheating. Honest people don't use hacks because there is no point in winning if you have to cheat to win.

If everyone goes the same way, it is no cheating. The win is perfectly honest, everyone had the same conditions. True, if there is someone going the "right" way, he'll be causing lots of troubles. But if everyone is cutting, it indeed is much safer, faster, funnier. Maybe you trust on this point someone who's done one thousand of laps there, maybe you could trust someone who's done tens of thousands of laps this way?

Well, I guess you would not. Devs made the track go that way, it is the only correct way. I can understand the point. But it never worked and if BL2R ever finds its way back to demo it will not work again. Demo people have been doing it this way for years and none of them ever complained about cheating, simply because cutting was better from every perspective and the same for everyone.

But again, I repeat that I understand the idealistic point of view.

Quote from [d9] :

i think AI should never punish for NOT WRONG behaviour

Well, true, but warning on 1st and kick on 2nd attempt is not exactly a capital punishment, is it? In vast majority of cases the kicks are correct and in the few cases when it is not, well, we're sorry. Overall I see the positive sides of the filter clearly outweighting the negative ones.

Quote from [d9] :

i still cant understand, why cant i say "i am idiot", when i screw my lap

This is more about what words some people find yet acceptable. Again, true, you might be referring to yourself, but mostly it is used as an offense. The founding fathers of the AirAttack servers established a strict language policy, we're just following this because it really works.

Quote from [d9] :

btw, i am wondering, if you really have statistically documented your 95% succes of auto kicking/warning, i guess it might be even under 50%

I was not doing extensive research, it is just my feeling from what I see. But for the point of argument appended are all captured curses from yesterday's log of the AirAttack demo servers. (NOTE: Do not open if you do not want to lose all the remaining faith in humanity!) I've counted about 120 cases when the language filter fires, 100 of which were warnings, 20 were kicks. I see ONE clearly false warning there, one or two more that are disputable. I see NO false kick. Maybe yesterday was an exceptional day or the filter in fact works with 99% reliability.

Quote from morpha :

Generally speaking, swearword filters are censorship and deprive people of their freedom of speech, they're a complete waste of system resources as far as I'm concerned.

Right. I might add that we're not a governmental organization either making sure everyone can say whatever he wants. Most of the people are actually offended when someone is swearing at them or generally using very bad language on server. Giving "free speech" can kill a server, it can quickly deteriorate the atmosphere of the server. Over all, the filter works very well, it quickly ends arguments and for sure the AirAttack people do not even consider the possibility of turning it off. But of course adjustments are possible and necessary, such as the removal of "pica" word as mentioned above...

Quote from morpha :

Chill and ignore, works way better than wasting your time and giving them the reaction they hope for

Yes, a loong ban for the guy helps me to chill out quite quickly. And such bans are not pointless, sooner or later the people will run out of their LFS accounts and creating new ones will take them more time than they'll spent online before being banned again and again...

Last edited by EQ Worry, Wed 13 Jan 2010, 08:02.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Everyone always cuts across the gravel on the outside of turn one, then there's a big crashfest on the next left-hander, I think that's why people got sick of that circuit

Uhm? If everyone is cutting through T1 on BL2R (as it used to be), then crashing anyone there is actually pretty much impossible. Go the right way, on tarmac, and you'll have all kinds of troubles. Cutting is much safer, faster, more fun. If BL2R ever returns to demo then we'll certainly go for cutting. People will get sick of the track only if cutting is not allowed.

As I wrote in some other post, I consider removing BL1R and particularly BL2R from demo a big mistake. It substantially weakened the demo community, and believe it or not, licensed people actually come from demo, so it (my view, but I'm not alone) substantially weakened S2 as well.

Considering demo/licensed hosts. I love demo. It is an interesting community with new people coming (and going too). It changes constantly, every day you'll see someone new, you see what progress he makes (first being banned, then learning the rules, meeting the community, turning into a LFS fan, later into a good driver). I think the S2 community is pretty much static, the same old faces around... Want to understand humankind as a whole? Watch demo! Joke, a bit, but also some truth in this statement.

Also, it is perfectly possible to have nice, close, clean races on demo servers. Obviously the chance of being crashed is higher. There are hardcore crashers but it is much more probable you'll crash because of some unexpected action of a complete newbie. Learn to calculate with that, expect the unexpected and you can have quite some fun. Sometimes. On some places. With some people.

Quote from bunder9999 :

what about editing the STA's by hand?

Yes, of course that is possible. You need to stop Airio, find the correct item in STA files, change it, save the file, start Airio again. The STA files format is in detal explained right here. But this approach is not recommended. [If you try, make sure to have backup copies.]

Quote from menantoll :

Again I don't know if it has been asked before but is there a way of giving point penalties (removing points) and safety rating penalties (lowering it)?

Currently there is no automated nor manual way to subtract points. They can only rise and only automatically by configuration (races, improvements, series, stunts).

Safety rating is not manually configurable. However it can go both up and down according to positive or negative values configures (yellow flags, finished laps, races, cursing).

Quote from [d9] :

heh, this is neverending...

Indeed. I have a few comments:

1) If you're unhappy about some Airio config on some server(s), why write it here? This is general thread discussing Airio, solving troubles, giving suggestions. Specific config complains belong to server admins, not here.

2) But OK, I'm the one mostly taking care of AirAtack servers, so I can answer some things here:

I agree the word "pica" is clear overkill, too general, too sporadicaly used in the intended meaning. I agree trying to cover as much languages may and will sometimes give wrong warnings/kicks...

But SO WHAT? Argumenting that you can't talk about Dostoyevskiy's Idiot on AA servers is, sorry, pure and utter rubbish. You must know perfectly well that in 99.5% of cases it is used as an abusive word, so what is the point?

We're not human rights organization nor layers protecting evil based on the fact that with 0.5% probablity the evil is not actually evil. If anyone is warned and on 2nd attempt kicked by mistake, we're sorry. Any automated system will give false alarms, especially if as extended as on AirAttack servers.

Overall the filter kicks correctly in 95% or even more cases. If someone feels entitled (maybe after being crashed) to swear and abuse others and is kicked, that, by AA filosophy, is the correct action, because swearing never helps anything, does not solve the problem, rather escalates it.

Trying to find the cases where the specifically configured filter may fail is prety useless exercise. BTW, none if the "shit" examples you wrote will give you warning or kick, you can test it. On the other hand the "bitch" examples will indeed fire falsely, but I can hardly imagine anyone using most of those.

Considering managing demo servers to the ideal state (clean races, everyone happy): Anyone trying to do that will know it is pretty much impossible, unless you have someone with at least six eyes constantly online. And such people are rare indeed. So we need to rely an automatics as much as possible, and I believe it is indeed doing a good job. Not perfect, naturally, but even humans are not capable of that.

Sorry for this a bit heated answer, I just wanted to make my points clear.

PS: A very inappropriate request here, but in case you, Scawen, will be reading this post yet, please do consider returning BL1R and BL2R back to demo. I feel, and I'm not alone, that demo got substantially weaker by removing the two tracks, by which the whole LFS community suffered, possibly with negative impact to S2 racing as well. Of course I do not have any exact numbers to support my feeling, but there it is...

Thanks a lot for the explanation! It perfectly fits the situation that can be observed - it actually does not concern updating controls, but (unfortunately) it assigns new PID to the driver, changing the one linked previously to CID, which is a problem.

Thank you for looking into this, I know how exhausting it is trying for many hours to discover one small thing happening only occasionally and impossible/hard to reproduce. I have actually now a replay available where the problem happened, but I think it is not needed anymore.

Looking forward to a fix and maybe some other InSim/OutGauge additions. Really helpful would be moving the traction control bit to driver data, adding damage bit (or byte). Good would be longer messages to connections, additional OutGauge data (tyre/clutch temperatures) and I'm sure lots of other things could be devised, but I don't want to flood this thread with too many requests.

Last edited by EQ Worry, Mon 11 Jan 2010, 20:41.

Quote from VoiD :

I can´t get the new "driver IP address capturing" to work... nearly all guests still using EN as language... What LFSPath is needed: to deb.log or to lfs.exe?

You need the following in the appropriate SRV file:


Also, if I remember correctly, a reasonably recent server Z patch is necessary, at least Z15 or something like this (because the server log file format has changed there).

IP address (and country) capturing will work then.

Oh, lol, I'll add this one as an exception...

Quote from Rychas :

The very first day I tried to play LFS Online I tried about 11 different servers, only to find I did not match a certain rank, or even banned because I joined with the wrong car, not giving me a chance to change it.

I can hardly believe that. There are very few ranking servers around and ALL I've seen always display necessary info on connect and on every incorrect car selection. Also, they always give at least 3 chances to comply with requirements, before a kick (basically for spamming the server with join/spec messages), never a ban. Well, here I'm talking at least about Airio servers.

Of course you may have also hit time-locked servers, requiring certain lap time to join. If used, this is to protect all the other drivers from people with zero experience. Such locks are usually applied only in primetime and only when the server is almost full. Also, the required time is (at least on AirAttack servers) set very generously and achievable after a short practising. You may get the required lap time on any existing server (and finding one really isn't problem) and then come right back.

Hope this helps. Please realize that entering the most used servers and being competitive there certainly takes time. But it is basically not possible on multiclass servers to allow anyone using any car and have good races at the same time.

Very interesting note about the scripts. However, how come the bad sequence of events happens only exceptionally? See below. A guy was joining several times and then suddenly and only once the bug happened. I do not use scripts much, but this confuses me.